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#9855 - 01/31/12 03:37 PM Re: The scoring level of the Blue and Gold [Re: VUbowl]
Mike Kozlowski Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 8
Loc: illinois
Hey Gary,

I think you are coming from a good place and I agree that college bowling should absolutely be at the pinnacle of competition.


I think it might be beneficial, although probably a lot of work for someone like Karl, to look at the entire season sort of like how we look at sectionals. What I mean is analyzing the scoring pace and field averages with respect to the strength of the field. That way we could try and see what exact tournament characteristics led to high scoring like at the Blue and Gold.

That being said - I hate absolutely hate it if we ended up bowling on the U.S. Open every other weekend.

Thanks
_________________________
Mike Kozlowski
University of Illinois

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#9867 - 02/02/12 11:07 AM Re: The scoring level of the Blue and Gold [Re: Mike Kozlowski]
toverbey Offline
forum member


Registered: 02/02/12
Posts: 1
I have thoroughly enjoyed reading the ideas that have been put forth in this thread as they are addressing my most pressing issue with the state of college bowling. I know that between equipment and knowledge the shots are playing easier but is the oil pattern always the culprit? While I wholeheartedly believe that the definition of sport shot should be 2:1, I do not think even that will address the 'problem.'

Today's game is about having the right ball in your hands on the right part of the lane, not necessarily being the most accurate bowler. With that being said, I think the bigger issue is not the oil itself but the high performance equipment being thrown on it. A center puts out more oil so the bowlers cannot get a ball to hook. The ball companies create a ball that will hook for the bowlers. The house now has to put out more oil to compensate. Rinse and repeat the cycle. Bowlers now are throwing the equivalent of sponges on the fresh therefore creating the burn-bumper much easier and earlier. Has there been any study, or mention of the idea, about looking into limiting the porosity of bowling equipment? I think that would even go into expanding the life of high performance equipment as it will not die out as quickly (though that is a whole other matter entirely).

As always I am proud to see the collegiate level at the forefront of keeping the integrity of the sport alive. I truly do appreciate everything Gary Brown, the coaches and the players do to keep this sport moving forward strongly.
_________________________
Trent Overbey
University of Kansas 2003-2007
Head Coach University of Kansas 2007-2010

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#9868 - 02/02/12 12:29 PM Re: The scoring level of the Blue and Gold [Re: toverbey]
sma428 Offline
forum member


Registered: 11/07/08
Posts: 87
Loc: New York
I think the UNLV coach must have read this post and that influenced the shots that were used over the past weekend in Vegas......can you say brutalll?
_________________________
Steve Ammirati
St. John's Red Storm

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#9869 - 02/02/12 04:05 PM Re: The scoring level of the Blue and Gold [Re: sma428]
VUbowl Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 73
Trent,
There are actually in place already some newer specs or surface characteristics of bowling balls, basically it limits the height and spacing of the "hills/valleys" that a ball surface can have. The down side to the spec is that is grandfathered in everything prior to the time period of implementation so the rule really controls the future getting any worse than addressing anything with the past.

Steve,
I have not seen the results from Vegas yet, do you know what type of pattern was used, i.e. length, volume, ratio, etc. What was the scoring pace, and more specifically how did the pattern hold up through the block?

Gary Sparks
Vincennes University

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#9870 - 02/02/12 04:05 PM Re: The scoring level of the Blue and Gold [Re: sma428]
RIT_TylerHerrman Offline
forum member


Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 123
Loc: Syracuse, NY
yea i saw that and was really upset we didnt bowl it! Top 5 indiv was barely plus? Wow thats awesome
_________________________
RIT 13

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#9871 - 02/02/12 05:53 PM Re: The scoring level of the Blue and Gold [Re: RIT_TylerHerrman]
uffleshuffle Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 326
Loc: Iowa
Some blurbs about the Vegas tourney from a conversation with a fellow coach:

"we bowled on 39 feet on friday and it played like 45"

"it took -2 to make all tournament team LOL... for 7 games"

"it was a blast from the past"

"it was a brunswick machine, brunswick oil

on anvilane"

That's about all the perspective I have until more information is posted.

Sounds fun!
_________________________
Christopher P. Uffman
Assistant Coach
Midland University
Fremont, NE

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#9873 - 02/03/12 11:08 AM Re: The scoring level of the Blue and Gold [Re: uffleshuffle]
UNO Mavs Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 86
Loc: Omaha, NE
Thanks Uffman, I didn't know I was being interviewed...

In an attempt to explain what we saw in Vegas last weekend, first you can clearly see the scoring pace was much lower than the 'norm' for this season. The posted scores incate a field average of 173+, and that is not including the four JV teams, so that could go down.

In the two tournaments (Friday's Sin City Open and Saturday/Sunday's Rebel Invitational) we bowled on what was listed as WTBA Seoul and WTBA Tokyo, respectively. On paper, those patterns are usually pretty fair and can yield some high scores if you do things correctly. However, it was clear after Friday's 15 minutes of practice that we were in for something a bit different.

I thought that both tournaments were completely fair, and it definitely required more shotmaking that has been needed at any tournament yet this season. The fresh both days, but especially Saturday/Sunday, didn't provide much help for the ball going away from the headpin. With good speed control and correct equipment choices, you had a good shot at shooting 210. Pair to pair was tricky because of all the different angles being played to get the ball to the pocket.

Peronally, I thought it was great, and if we want to see lower scoring events they would likely have to be similar to this. This was the first time in a while I've seen a pattern easily contend with the high-end bowling balls and not allow a huge hole in the pattern by game 2. Usually by the end of the first game, if you effectively use practice time and make good shots all game, there is a couple board downlane to play with. That was definitely not the case. We really didn't have effective room down the lane until games 6-7, and even then there was a lot of hook in the fronts to contend with and not much motion downlane.

Thanks to Joey Shugart and the UNLV club for running two very good tournaments. It was definitely a long weekend but well worth it, and we are hoping to be back there next year.
_________________________
J. J. Mastny
Head Coach, Midland University

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#9874 - 02/03/12 06:19 PM Re: The scoring level of the Blue and Gold [Re: UNO Mavs]
sma428 Offline
forum member


Registered: 11/07/08
Posts: 87
Loc: New York
It was unlike anything i have ever bowled before, definitely was all about shot-making. All emphasis on break-point accuracy and soft hand. I agree with Coach Mastny that it was fair and it was nice not to see that free hook there after game 3 like previous tournaments this year
_________________________
Steve Ammirati
St. John's Red Storm

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#9875 - 02/03/12 11:20 PM Re: The scoring level of the Blue and Gold [Re: sma428]
rebelcoach Offline
forum member


Registered: 10/30/08
Posts: 6
Loc: Las Vegas
Thnx for the support JJ... we appreciate it! ;\)

I did see some of the posts on here prior to making my final decision with the Orleans on the patterns. Mainly I was going off of some of our tournaments out here where the patterns were made to either play easier or they just straight out put a house shot down. If anything seeing what happened the weekend before helped solidify that I was going in the right direction with what we had in mind. They did play tougher then I thought they would, but there's nothing wrong with that.

Honestly I didn't hear too many complaints about how tough it was. I know there was frustrations (my own team hated me for a little bit) but thats how it should be. The coaches loved it cause you had to physically bowl well do to well.

Good to see some others on here liked it ;\)

Joey Shugart
UNLV Head Coach

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#9876 - 02/04/12 02:30 PM Re: The scoring level of the Blue and Gold [Re: rebelcoach]
VUbowl Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 73
Joey,
If there was something that you did to alter the Tokyo and Seoul from their norm, could you please email me with what was done. Both of them seemed to play more difficult than "usual" but of course its always dependent of the many other factors in the whole arena of how any pattern might play.

Thanks,
Gary Sparks
Vincennes University

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